Adventures in Self-Releasing: A Change is Coming

by Jeffrey Goodman | Published July 24, 2009

It’s been an interesting last few days. Suddenly, The Last Lullaby has two more one-week theatrical engagements: Lake Park, Florida at the Mos’ Art Theatre July 31-August 6 (www.mosarttheatre.com) and New Orleans at the Zeitgeist August 7-13 (www.zeitgeistinc.net).

One other thing I wanted to mention before hopping into this week’s entry: Many people in the movie business have a bad habit of not saying “no.” In other words, oftentimes their disinterest in a project comes in the form of you never hearing back from them. It’s frustrating, but just in case you haven’t already figured it out: In the movie business, most of the time, not hearing back equals no.

OK, onto this week’s post… We’re in an interesting time. Easiest time ever to make a movie. Hardest time ever to monetize the finished product. Easiest time ever to find an outlet for your finished movie. But with a proliferation of outlets comes a decrease in the importance of each outlet.

It’s fragmented out there. Everyone is getting their information from so many different sources. How as independent moviemakers, with very limited marketing budgets, do we possibly break free of this quagmire?

We don’t. We’re screwed. Pack it in and call it a day.

And there are many things to back up this feeling:

1. People are going to movies less than ever before
We’re in an international economic crisis for one. Plus, other things are competing for people’s free time that perhaps movies once dominated—the Internet, better home entertainment systems, pay-per-view and Netflix, to name but a few.

2. Piracy
We all know what’s become of the music industry. I don’t think the question is, ”Are we’re next?” but rather, “How long before it happens to us, too?” In certain countries, piracy’s already a major problem and it’s affecting the price foreign distributors are paying for movies, big time.

3. Media spend
I’ve mentioned several times in this blog that distributors are offering smaller and smaller advances for the movies they’re acquiring. So why is this?

a. It’s become harder for distributors to market their movies. They have to spend more to get people’s attention in an increasingly noisy and fragmented world.

b. More movies are being made every year. And more important, more movies are being released theatrically every weekend. So, it becomes harder for a
distributor to make their independent movie stand out from the pack. So that’s the bad news.

The good news is that something has to give. Moviemakers can’t go on forever making movies that don’t at least make their money back. And distributors can’t keep squeaking by in the marketplace.

A change is coming. I don’t know what it will look like, but I think soon we will see a new model for delivering our movies to our audiences. And, frankly, I think it can only be an improvement.

After living in Los Angeles for seven years, Jeffrey Goodman returned to his hometown of Shreveport, Louisiana to direct The Last Lullaby. Co-written by the creator of Road to Perdition, and starring Tom Sizemore and Sasha Alexander, The Last Lullaby was filmed entirely in and around Shreveport and financed by 48 local investors.

SHARE THIS STORY

COMMENTS | POST A COMMENT

Comment by Hunter on 7/24/09 at 12:48 pm

Hey Jeffrey. Long-time reader, first-time caller. :)

I hate to be the lone voice of dissent, but I have to object to some of the ideas you’ve put forth in this latest installment of your blog. I think maybe the difficulty of your current situation has made you unable to see the forest for the trees with regard to the state of the industry as a whole.

It’s true that it’s difficult to monetize independent films right now… however, that has always been the case. There was never a golden age of independent film wherein studios and distributors had some insatiable appetite for low-budget indie gems. While there was a boom recently with the growth and emergence of Sundance as a hip, ahead-of-the-curve addition to the American Film Market, that was a bubble doomed to burst because the model was unsustainable—the higher the bids on the films, the narrower the (already slim) profit margins for the distributor.

Statistically you’re wrong about a few things—particularly that people are going to movies less than ever. Last year was the biggest year for the industry ever, even when adjusted for inflation. That’s pretty un-fucking-believable, and it happened despite (or maybe because of?—that’s another debate) piracy. Now, mind you, that includes international theatrical runs and home-video revenue streams, but that’s all part of the game. People may be spending less time in theaters, but they are still rabidly consuming the media. Whether it’s on Hulu, Netflix, DirecTV onDemand, or whatever.

And then, as for your third point, I can tell you from first hand experience that marketing budgets are actually *shrinking* due to new media outlets’ efficacy, amd their ability to directly target the exact niche demographic for a given film. You get more bang for your buck with online marketing than with super-broad, untrackable TV campaigns.

New media hasn’t made it more difficult to target your audience… It’s more that old media has become less effective as people get more and more of their entertainment and information (and therefor advertising) online.

The outlook is not so bleak, my friend. If you put a little elbow grease into it, you can use the Internet to your own great advantage, for a fraction of a traditional campaign.

Speaking of which, when will those of us not in the 15 or so cities that you’re taking Lullaby to get a chance to order the DVD?

Comment by Hunter on 7/24/09 at 12:54 pm

By the way, 2009 is already shaping up to be as big or bigger than last year in terms of domestic box office gross.

Many analysts are saying that because of the recession, people are forgoing their planned vacations and staying home and going to the movies for (comparatively cheaper) thrills… makes sense to me. Traditionally the film industry has been mostly recession-proof for this reason.

Comment by Hunter on 7/24/09 at 2:00 pm

Also—this is my last post I promise—I thought you might find this interesting.

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/2009-comic-con-kick-ass/

Certainly that’s an avenue that would be well-suited to your film, because of its genre nature and Max Alan Collins’ graphic novel cred. Perhaps next year?

Comment by Jeffrey Goodman on 7/24/09 at 5:47 pm

Hi Hunter,

Thank you so much for all of the comments.

I’m hoping the first edition of the DVD will be ready in the next 4-6 weeks.

It almost seems as though, in your opinion, it’s a good time for the movie business right now. However, if that’s the case, how do you explain the recent closure of three of the most important independent movie distributors—Picturehouse, Warner Independent, and Paramount Vantage. And, from many accounts, The Weinstein Company is in major financial trouble, as well.

It just seems to me that if times are so good that the distributors would be thriving rather than closing their doors? I’m curious about your take on this.

All the best,

Jeffrey

Comment by hunter on 7/24/09 at 6:10 pm

Well I said that the movie industry (as a whole) is doing well. It was an objection to your first point, which was that “people are going to the movies less than ever before.” It’s simply not true.

As for indie films… they are in the same position they’ve always been in… as far as distro goes. Save for the 3-4 years when Searchlight, Magnolia, et al would rush to bid on the next “Little Miss Sunshine” at Sundance, this has always been the case. It’s neither nothing to be excited about nor a loss to mourn. Those indie outfits weren’t cut out to make it, long-term. They were reactionary, financially unwise ventures doomed from the outset because they were created in response to a select few independent films which made their money back and cracked into the cultural zeitgeist. It was an unsustainable model because the truth is that 99% of indie films suck and are unsellable.

Because of this most indies are up shit creek without a paddle if they don’t have bankable stars (or at the very least, someone who is bankable in an above-the-line position), because even if the studio pumps money into it, they won’t see a worthwhile ROI. Unfortunately the public is not as daring as I wish they were… they need those familiar faces to lead them into the scary world of independent film.

Therefor, to say you’re going to start a company which will buy and distribute “good indie films” is like saying you’re starting a company that will win the lottery. There are a finite amount of good (and/or marketable) indie films made each year, and the more of these indie film distributors that pop up and raise the bidding price of these films at places like Sundance, the slimmer the profit margins… until eventually they’re paying more for the film than the film will make in return.

There is a reason studios exist, and it is because they can make things that sell.

My opinion is that if you’re in it for the money, indie film is the wrong place to be.

If you’re in it to make a film and get it seen, but make no money, then hey—you’re in business. That’s really easy to do with a little overhead.

You can make indie films that will make some money, but in order to do that you have to adhere to a set of guidelines which will make the film marketable… and if you’re doing that, and it doesn’t work organically with your story, then you might as well be in Hollywood.

I find that it’s better to think of an indie film as an investment in your career and less as the end result (or a means by which to make money). Use a film like Lullaby to establish your voice, your abilities, your cred. Then use it to get your next gig.

Comment by Jeffrey Goodman on 7/24/09 at 6:43 pm

Hi Hunter,

I completely agree with many of your comments. They’re very well put. And, you’re right, I should have clarified my last entry as pertaining to the world of independent movies. Really, all of my posts here are focused on the indy world rather than Hollywood (since that’s the world I’m working in and feel comfortable discussing.)

However, I don’t agree with a few of your comments above:

1. I don’t think that 99% of indie films suck. But, hey, that’s just a subjective thing.

2. Indie films are NOT in the same position they’ve always been in. Ten years ago, a completed independent feature-length movie with some recognizable cast had much more monetary value (internationally, on DVD, and on TV) than it does now. That’s the big crisis and challenge independent movies are facing right now.

And so then my question becomes (because really I see myself in this group), what do you do if you’re a moviemaker trying to make movies that Hollywood really doesn’t care to make? And just because Hollywood doesn’t want to make them doesn’t immediately mean they’re not commercial. We see examples of this every year. Just as every year, we see many, many examples of the Hollywood system making financial failures.

All good thoughts. I hope you’ll continue to share.

All the best,

Jeffrey

Comment by Hunter on 7/24/09 at 7:27 pm

Hey Jeffrey—if you don’t think 99% of indie films suck (in the eyes of a distributor), you’re not watching enough of them. ;)

You can monetize an indie film, but it takes ingenuity and know-how. If you don’t have that know-how, then the cost is greater than the money you’ll make. So it becomes a game of figuring it out on your own.

As for whether indie films are in the same place they’ve been for the recent past—I mean their positioning in relation to the industry at large. They are no larger or smaller a portion of the pie than before. The same few bottom-feeding distros are shipping their no-budge mess to Blockbuster and Hollywood Video, same as always, but who rents from those places anyway? And those distros that are worth their weight have found success in micro-targeting online.

Re: your last question,

I think that if you want to tell a story that Hollywood won’t tell, if you want to make it commercial you have to at least give them the tools to sell it. It’s not a mystical process. The marketing execs at the studio look for recognizable name talent, some story beats that would make a nice narrative for the trailer/tv campaign, and some nice visuals (whatever that may mean). If you don’t give them the things they need in order to market it, they won’t touch it. They may very well pass on a film that CAN be marketable but these are not people with imagination. If you can execute something in such a way as to tell the story well while also equipping the marketing departments, then you might be able to approach one of the big studios or distros with your film and convince them to buy it. It’s not about the actual product, truthfully, so much as it is giving them a sandbox and some shovels with which to sculpt whatever kind of castle they want.

If you think of it backwards—reverse engineer the process, so to speak—it becomes very clear how to go about this whole thing. When I’m writing my projects, I think “what would the trailer for this look like?”—if it’s boring, and I can’t come up with some way to make it interesting, then I keep working. When I’ve arrived at a concept that would make an incredible trailer, I know it’s got potential.

Comment by Hunter on 7/24/09 at 7:38 pm

Also, the crisis you describe is not one that is specific to the *indie* film industry. The problem of market saturation affects the entire industry. What you’re describing is basically that there are more options to choose from for international, alternative, and non-theatrical outlets, so why would they choose the low budget stuff, when Hollywood has pumped out products that are easier to sell? Why would Lifetime buy some 200,000 film about a girl and her horse, when they can have Zac Effron or Jenifer Anniston?

Comment by Dorian Dardar on 7/24/09 at 9:31 pm

hey Jeff,
I saw you in New Orleans last week at an Indie Filmmaker panel where you and some other guys talked before they screened your film, and after listening to you I decided I wasn’t going stay and watch it. I don’t know, maybe it’s your attitude, but I just didn’t care about you or your film. Your aura was just terrible. Forget and stop caring about what’s wrong with everything, and about how much money you’re not making and think about what’s right, focus on creating a more positive energy around you, and then maybe you’ll sell more.
this is a business of personality my friend, and people want to feel good, and see others feeling good.
Because really, after listening to you I almost wanted to forget about making movies, but luckily I’m just too beast to go and do that.

Comment by twenty4fps on 7/24/09 at 11:57 pm

For Hunter:

Kudos to you. Thoughtfully crafted with wisdom behind your statements. And I agree 100% with what you have said.

We must remember though, in these circumstances, that Jeffrey is a first time film maker, “Indie” or not, with no film school or OJT experience, outside of a few shorts.

The advice you gave him and knowledge you shared is valuable and my hope is that he really appreciates it and respects it.

Jeff? Sounds like you’re in a bit of a pinch? Sounds like your distribution company is wanting more than you really want to give.

Welcome to the real world, where it takes a team of people and companies to get one picture to market. Gotta share, my friend.

And it helps when you budget for P&A;when developing your picture. That way your distributor can’t take 50% of your picture, RIGHTLY, for covering the P&A;. Don’t take it personally, it’s just the business, guy.

From reading between the lines, I can tell that is the primary issue.

Jeffrey, my consultation is this. Considering the lensing date, and how long you have been in the festival circuits, if you get a break even offer, take it, and run.

I agree with Hunter, you are wrong on so many points in your current blog. However no judgement here, as I know this is your very first commercial “indie” picture.

Better to heed advice from those with experience, than to carry on like you know what time of day it is, when in fact you don’t.

Hope you can at least make your investors money back.

Comment by twenty4fps on 7/25/09 at 8:53 am

Jeffrey,

Might I suggest that you subscribe to Film Specific, a website for Independents, by Tracey Sparks, an Independent distributor for 15 years. Her pay subscription site is chock full of wisdom and invaluable insight into the world of “Indie” film making and distribution.

And from the writing of your current blog, and the comment responses, I would advise against hosting your workshop in Shreveport. You are not prepared, mentally, nor by experience. And the info you shared here is not in step with reality, so I would have to safely deduce that your workshop would be a bit misleading to those who will be willing to pay for it, thereby doing them and yourself a diservice.

Join Film Specific and it will help you see through the fog of frustration and inexperience.

Comment by Jeffrey Goodman on 7/25/09 at 9:12 am

Hi Hunter and twenty4fps,

I totally appreciate all of your comments.

I do stand by all of my comments in this week’s blog and have found them to be true in my experience and through talking with many other moviemakers currently going through the process. I have made some mistakes along the way, which I have admitted to through my various entries on this blog (should have had a trailer earlier, could have had even more money in the budget for P&A;, etc.) However, if I had done these things differently, the landscape as I painted it in this week’s entry would still be the same. It’s a real challenge for me, and for every independent moviemaker that I know well.

My only gripe with some of your comments is that you make the industry sound so simple. All I can say is I look forward to following your successes. And, hopefully in making your movies, you can teach us all how to avoid the enormous challenges that most of us face.

To that end, I invite you, when each of you have a successful project, to write me on this blog and walk the readers through your road to success. I think we’re all in this together. And that’s always been the purpose of this blog.

I hope that you’ll continue to follow along.

All the best,

Jeffrey

Comment by Jeffrey Goodman on 7/25/09 at 9:27 am

Hi Dorian,

I appreciate your comments.

I apologize if my appearance on the panel last weekend came off negatively to you. I have never been one in this process to soft pedal things and just try to present in realistic fashion the industry as I’ve experienced it.

I hope the path for you will be successful. And I hope that you’ll continue to follow along.

All the best,

Jeffrey

Comment by twenty4fps on 7/25/09 at 10:57 am

Good morning Jeffrey,

Thank you for your response.

I don’t mean to imply that making movies is easy, as it is not.

Here is what I surmmize from your personal situation.

The biggest problem you face in this endeavor is yourself. I am not being disrespectful by stating the obvious.

As Hunter said you have to create a product with the tools in place to assist the AE or distributor in successfully selling your picture.

Knowing what distributors look for in qualifying pictures, I’ll first start with you, as the director.

Remember and bear in mind that I am not picking on you or belittling you.

You are the director. An unproven, non-guilded one at that.

I know for a fact that distributors want to know the history behind the director. They want to know your individual performance values. You have none, therefore it is hard for them to gauge how well your picture will do in the markets.

They also want to know the track record of the director of photography.

Talent is a huge indicator for distributors, and your talent’s past paid performances are reflective to the distributor, as well as marketability. You know the saying. “You’re only as successful as your last picture”

Also, the best thing anyone could do for their picture is to start from the onset a pre-market campaign.

Coppola is doing You tube for his Independent film “Tetro”. His channel is called tetrofilm.

Spielberg did ARG, (Alternate Reality Gaming), for A.I. through a game platform called “The Beast”.

A computer savy E-PR person is also highly beneficial from the onset. These professionals have the knowledge and access to steer your project on the internet to the right outlets to maximize exposure. It’s called “pull” marketing and it’s blowing apart the traditional, costly P&A;platforms.

To say what you said, based on your own reflective experience, is a diservice to yourself and Independent film makers. Your situation does not speak for the indistry as a whole. I know this personally.

I spent 15 years working BTL, 18 years writing screenplays, and four years ATL on other folks projects before I even decided to venture out on my own endeavors. My patience and persistence over the years has paid off. My experiences and knowledge aquired over that time span has been a benefit for me, personally.

Jeffrey, we learn from our indivudal experiences as we grow in this process. Every book written about this business is written by the authors, based on their own reflective experiences.

Take this experience and allow yourself to grow, and learn from your mistakes, so that you don’t get caught repeating them.

Most importantly don’t disseminate information based on your emotions. Never let anyone see you sweat.

I speak from experience, though I will never claim to be a guru or know it all, as I continue to learn as this industry grows with the influx of new outlets.

I spent two years packaging one project alone, with 6 months speaking with AE’s and distributors, from the onset. It’s all about thorough preplanning during the development stage.

Where am I at now? I have a director attached out of UCLA with a proven track record, foreign and domestically, who just happens to claim he’s a big fan of my “writing voice”. My DP, his partner, also has a proven track record.

My lead has marketability worldwide, and is considered as “bank” by the distributor we have signed under contract. My lead is also attached as an Executive Producer, and that equates into them putting quality time in promoting our film. Results? They shared the script with folks at Sundance, shared the project with Peter Jackson, and other producers from Canada to the UK.

And I am considered an “unproven” in this industry as a writer.

My Investor is highly impressed by our pre-market campaign platforms, five in all. Her response was “Holy Shit!!” when I shared the details with her. Our picture will go viral once we start pre-pro. The plan is to pull the niche market audiences to us, before we hand off the materials to our distributor.

All of that took me two years in planning alone.

Nut it up Jeffrey, and stop writing from the perspective of a being victim of the industry.

Obviously you victimized yourself through your own inexperience. Get past that. You owe that to your investors.

All is not lost, as long as you can at least break even.

Have a great wkend.

Comment by Jeffrey Goodman on 7/25/09 at 11:27 am

Hi twenty4fps:

Thank you so much for all of your comments.

Your latest project sounds great, and as I mentioned in my previous post, I think it would be invaluable for me and all of the readers here to follow your process and learn from all of your experience.

Please share the title of your recent project so that we can all benefit and follow along with the alternative approach that you are describing above.

All the best,

Jeffrey

Comment by twenty4fps on 7/25/09 at 11:53 am

Jeffrey,

I contacted my E-PR rep about announcing the name of our picture here, and she asked me not to, as she already has a release written for moviemaker.com, but will not release it until the usual press packet is released. In her words it’s all about shock and awe in the virtual world.

I can say, however, that our pre-release buzz hinges on the fact that our lead is playing a role he is not accustomed to being seen as playing, the antagonist.

Rest assured, when the time comes you will see our news here and everywhere else on the internet.

Keep your eyes on the computer screen!! We are coming!!

Comment by Harry on 7/25/09 at 1:42 pm

I’m glad to see some people saying what I’ve been thinking all along but afraid to say myself.

Based on reading all of your blog posts, you seem like someone who is living in the past. You saw how things were done in the past (though you were never really a part of them like you are now so I’m thinking it may be more of a fictional “golden age"), jumped into this project with those expectations, and realized it’s not the same thing anymore. But you present it as hopeless. Like something is lost and nobody knows what to do anymore. Like everyone is blind. When on the contrary there is more opportunity now than ever before because of the internet. A ten year old can get a million views on youtube. Why can’t you? I think the difference now and the opportunity now demands better and more unique content and better access and involvement in it. And that is the one area you are lacking in. Forget creating small town buzz about an indie film, and doing social gatherings. Unless you’re in L.A. or N.Y. and have high profile people attending, that’s wasted effort. You also don’t need a PR firm in Shreveport helping you sell your film. What do they know? Selling t-shirts that only have the title of the film on them aren’t going to cut it. At least make shirts people might want to wear. You seem like you made a film just for Shreveport, but on a budget that demands national attention.

You need to get online. And by that I don’t mean having Facebook and Twitter and newsletters or blog that’s mainly just your naive opinion and all of these venues for people to go to find out about your film. That’s making the nonexistent audiences have to work to get information about a movie they don’t know or care about. Instead provide them with something to pique their interest. Your whole campaign feels like a film school project where distribution and money aren’t really a part of it, you’re just trying to keep friends and family in touch. Your website needs serious work as well. The front page makes the movie seem like it was shot on DV. And you don’t have actors whose faces are very recognizable so why are their faces all we see? Is there nothing else interesting to look at in your movie because if not, I sure don’t want to see it. There are just a lot of little things like that going on. It all feels very generic and I want a reason to care about this particular film. I’m much more aware and have better access to other film noir crime movies, why do I care about one by Jeffrey Goodman that frankly doesn’t look very good?

I can safely say as a professional graphic designer that your stuff is all extremely boring. And I can advise you that consistently in advertising, the things that get people’s attention and the best reactions are the most novel things and the most creative and fresh things. You’re doing stuff from ten years ago.

Which brings me to my next point, you’re trailer desperately needs to be recut. It makes me wonder if you’ve ever seen a modern movie trailer. I was curious about the film until I saw the trailer. And now I fear that perhaps as others alluded to, the problems you’re facing are not a result of a difficult industry, but the result of a mediocre film, which is probably the hardest thing to come to terms with. Especially if it’s your first feature and you’ve invested so much into it. I suggest trying to get to some critical feedback outside of the festival world to first get an idea of how good the average reviewer thinks your film is. You’re local supporters are going to give you a very biased and inflated sense of importance and success. But in Shreveport you’re simply a big fish in a small pond. In fact, in most cities you toured, the same is true. And it’s not like you’ve even had particularly outstanding success with that. You’re skimming around the rim of the indie film world/market and have yet to try and reach the core of it, which in my opinion will probably reject your film.

You just keep finding excuses about why it’s just impossible to sell a film today. But if your film was really good, you’d be able to sell it easily. Of course it’s hard to sell a bad product. And of course you like your movie. I’d like to see some more creative analysis here. I’d like to see you move on. And I’d like to see some more creative marketing. Everything about you and your project just feels very stale and technical. And nobody’s going to care about it.

You also need to stop looking for the answers from other people. There’s no book on this. The commenters here have already posted about creative ways of distributing in the modern film market. You need to get creative. After all you’re a director. This isn’t like selling insurance.

And please feel free to respond less formally, you’re starting to sound like a robot with you “Thank you so much for all of your comments.” I don’t believe you’re thankful for them if you say that about every comment. This is the internet. You can be informal, and honest. your small town PR firm is steering you in the wrong direction. We live in an age where you can follow your favorite celebrities twitters and blogs and even have live chats with them about their movies. We’re not communicating with letters.

If you want to know what you’re doing wrong, here’s a handful of them. And for your own good don’t be too stubborn to listen to them.

And I realize this all comes off a little harsh, but I feel like somebody needs to be giving you critical feedback. And I’m glad to see people here finally doing it.

Comment by twenty4fps on 7/25/09 at 2:24 pm

Wow Harry!!!

Bravo mate!! Intelligence matters here, and you hit one right out of the ball park.

I know about Jeffrey and his hometown hype. There are still “groupies” on that local level that believe whole heartedly that he is the best thing since sliced bread, when it comes to this industry. And I believe that biased feed back has given him a false sense of security about his picture, and then he got into the real world past Shreveport and found out the reality is starkly different, (insert deer caught in the headlights).

He even has folks in that town hanging on his every word, and treating his inexperienced opinions as gospel. That’s dangerous.

You did not come off as harsh,at least not to me. In fact your expressed concerns are valid realistic points.

I took an AE to the first premier at AFI-Dallas to watch his picture, and when the house lights came up he was ready to go get a drink.

Later I would learn his professional opinion. A mediocre film shot safely within the confines of Jeffrey’s deep inexperience. He simply was not interested in that picture, and the fact that it was his first was also something the AE commented on. Un proven means unmarketable.

I certainly hope Jeffrey is mature enough not to take any of this personally, as he can’t afford to. When we take something personally we create self inflicted suffering. And at this stage in the game he doesn’t have room for self pity, which a lot of his current blogs reflect that attitude.

For the sake of his investors he can’t think, talk or act as a victim. That’s completely self defeating.

He should just concern himself with getting the best possible deal at this point. Amazon anyone?

Great talking points Harry!! Got a website? ( like duh, huh?)

Comment by Jeffrey Goodman on 7/25/09 at 2:32 pm

Hi Harry,

First off, let’s just step back and take a look at the purpose of this blog. More than anything, it’s about discussing the business of movies. And trying to help moviemakers navigate the current landscape.

I’ve tried, through the various entries, to share my unabashed perspective on the independent movie world right now. These thoughts are coming from my experience with The Last Lullaby, as well as meeting many moviemakers and discussing their experiences, as well.

You criticize pretty extensively all of my efforts. And I can accept that (although I certainly don’t agree.) But, I think it’s important if you’re going to criticize, just like I suggested with Hunter and twenty4fps, to show specific models that are working that I’m not considering. Otherwise, who is the criticism really helping?

I would say right now that approximately 99% of movies being made between the $100,000 and $7.5 million dollar
level aren’t even making their money back. I just can’t accept that it’s because all of these movies are mediocre.

There are new, real challenges out there, and I’m trying to work my way around them. And hopefully through the dialogue here provide some tools for others, as well.

You’re a professional graphic designer but obviously very interested in the movie industry, as well. Do you think the independent movie industry is in a good place right now? You make some interesting comments above but your comment “...if your film was really good you’d be able to sell it easily” jumped out at me as probably the most troubling, given the current climate. Just curious of your take on where the independent movie industry is right now?

All the best,

Jeffrey

Comment by Harry on 7/25/09 at 6:02 pm

With regard to your intended purpose with this blog. If you wanted this to be more of an open discussion platform, perhaps you should have created a movie making forum. The current setup is pretty strictly designed for you to post your views and then people to respond. If you want to learn from others and have them freely post outside of the context of your posts, then you need a platform where your opinion isn’t the primary one.

Granted, this discussion is working pretty well, it’s naturally formatted for us to either agree or disagree with you. Not so much for us to bring up our own topics. And there are already plenty of other filmmaking forums that are already established that are easier to participate in. Point is, as noble as you may want it to be, this blog is very much about your point of view, and in the grand scheme of things it’s not terribly important one. I believe the other posters on this particular entry would probably agree that you’re kind of positioning yourself more as someone who needs help than someone with something to teach...which is why as was earlier stated the idea of you charging people for a workshop seems a bit absurd. A free workshop is fine. You can take what you will from it. A $300 workshop is high even for established filmmakers.

Your insights so far just don’t seem particularly helpful. They seem obvious given your approach. And they also seem like the reason most people don’t self-distribute. I feel like in a lot of ways self-distribution for a multi-million dollar indie film is a form of stubbornness. No one gave you the deal you wanted. Sure maybe in a booming economy someone may have said “what the hell, we’ll take the risk”, maybe, but that certainly doesn’t change the fact that if it’s really good they’ll say that no matter what the economic landscape. And by “good” I don’t mean what you or I think is good. I mean what sells. Perhaps a good exercise would be to take inventory of 100 random people’s DVD collections to determine the common “good” (aka marketable). I bet on average you’d find maybe one person with who has some of the obscure indie films you’ve mentioned in your blog in the past. I promise you it’s not because those people never heard of those films.

In response to your criticism comment, you’re asking us to lay out exactly what we think will work (or perhaps more specifically what we know will work), as though you’ll only listen if we show you the way. But the point I made earlier is that there is no book and no one person is going to be able to tell you exactly what to do. We can tell you why you’re looking at things from the wrong perspective. I think you’ve proven that what you think is right hasn’t been working. So any advice we provide can’t really be any worse than the advice you’ve already been following.

In my experience the first step of being an artist is to learn how to take criticism. You’re telling me not to criticize without proven advice. If I give you proven advice, then you wouldn’t need criticism because I’d have your answer for you. But that’d be like cheating. It never works like that.

Most successful models are known for their success because of the first time they were used...at which point it wasn’t known to be a successful model. Successful models also have been known to be unsuccessful for others. My advice: stop looking for your Holy Grail of a model to follow, and look at what you’ve made and what’s out there and try to determine why things are successful, not how. Art’s not about models. It’s about making the right thing at the right time for the right audience (i.e. there’s little point in trying to sell your new cubist painting to a gallery today).

You also have to learn to step outside of your own opinion. I hate the “Hollywood machine” as much as the next guy, but Hollywood does a lot of things right too. Their movies have mass appeal. If you think yours does too, you have a long way to go. At best your movie will appeal to very niche market and you need to be hammering that market hard. But from what I’ve seen, I’m not even sure you know what your market is.

For one, the movie is R-rated. That off the bat cuts out a huge portion of ticket buyers (teens and kids+parents), and interest from studios. You’re an indie film with no notable celebrities. That cuts out most of the easily appeased public. And it’s a drama. That’s means it comes fourth to comedy, action/adventure, and horror (if not fifth to family films).

Even Hollywood doesn’t put out that many pure dramas, many of which don’t make a whole heck of a lot of money, even if loaded with celebrities and nominated for awards.

That one percent of indie films you talk about that makes their money back are the ones that manage to match Hollywood with star-power and awards, and end up with the better film. In the last several years there’s been at least one big indie film nominated for an Oscar (fox searchlight has a good streak going). Watch those films, and whatever you think about them realize that they’re the successful ones. Those are the 1%. Understand that instead of complaining that 10 indie films aren’t nominated. That’s the reality you have to face. So how do you become one of those? Is it by following their model verbatim? I doubt it. Chances are your movie (in the public opinion) isn’t as good.

I’m curious if you attempted to get your film into higher profile festivals (i.e. Sundance, Cannes, Toronto), and if not, why? And if so did they decline it? The vast majority of successful indie films make an appearance at those places, fyi.

I think the movie industry actually isn’t changing all that much. Marketing is changing, but that change has been going on for a decade (or forever depending on how you look at it). Internet marketing is a given these days. Sure it’s still evolving, but everything does. But the same demographics of people that have been going to movies for decades are still going to the same kinds of movies.

Indie film has always been a bad place to be. In a lot of ways most indie films tend to intentionally try and oppose Hollywood. They’re the rebels. But few try and mix the two sides (which roughly put are story and marketability) to come up with a happy medium. But I feel like the ones that do prove to be extremely successful. For example the highest grossing film of recent memory, the Dark Knight, was directed by someone who got his start at Slamdance of all places.

But pure indie film is always a monumental risk (odds of say 1 in 100, if not a heck of a lot more). Indie film is almost always a starting point for filmmakers. They make an indie film to prove they know where to put a camera and have an interesting perspective or style. Then when they try and sell a story to Hollywood they have a portfolio. Hollywood will always be where the money is.

And if you want to make a career out of low budget filmmaking the only safe bet is porn. That’s a fact.

You know Sundance almost got 9,000 submissions last year? And maybe 5 of those got theatrical distribution. Athletes don’t tend to complain about not getting into the Olympics because of the number of people and the politics of how to get in. Generally, it’s pretty easy in sports to tell when you weren’t good enough compared to the competition. Think of festivals like a sports competition on the path to distribution with distributors as the referees/judges. You have to play by their rules to win. Sure you can make up your own sport, but don’t expect to win.

If you want to be successful make more marketable films. You simply have to work even harder or else make cheaper/easier films.

And if you think most indie films are good and sellable, then I think you need to work on your film literacy. If indie films were really good, why would Hollywood bother to pour it’s own money into making the movies they sell instead of purchasing the already made ones? From a strictly business perspective, it would make more sense for Hollywood to just buy indie films...but they don’t. And I promise it’s not because of the economy.

Comment by Harry on 7/25/09 at 6:09 pm

Also, you need to make a lot more movies. Most famous indie filmmakers are known because they have a lot of films under their belt. Wes Anderson wasn’t very famous after Bottle Rocket. In fact, he probably still isn’t that well known to most moviegoers, yet he’s a highly respected filmmaker with lots of critical acclaim and 5 movies under his belt.

The sooner you get started on the next film, the better.

Comment by hunter on 7/28/09 at 1:36 pm

Didn’t mean to cause an argument here, Jeffrey. Just wanted to express that the outlook isn’t so grim, if you learn to play the game.

Also, I don’t think it’s fair to write-off a criticism if someone hasn’t offered you a complete, working model.

Comment by David Menges on 11/04/09 at 5:00 pm

I’m glad I found your Website. We are looking for an outlet to introduce would-be Independent Film Makers to what we think is unprecedented in movie making.

We are finalizing our Website, and should be ready to launch it in about a week.

After spending all the money I could afford to on the movie (Western) we are currently filming here in Tombstone, Arizona (the first full length feature film ever shot IN Tombstone), I was sitting at home trying to find a way to fund the remainder of the film.

A friend of mine has been badgering me about doing a documentary on the making of this movie. I wanted to finish the movie first, but thinking about the documentary and the movie, it occurred to me that the documentary could actually fund the movie’s completion.

We are shooting a behind-the-scenes documentary as we shoot the scenes and will be posting the daily documentary clips on our Website. PayPal is hooked to the site, and for $1, people can watch the documentary from every day we shoot. We will be explaining the ins and outs of the Independent movie making proccess.

With the number of people that would love to make their own movies, and the number of computers in this world, we feel we will reach a very large audience. With the help of Websites (even magazines) such as yours, we will reach those individuals faster. I also have a number of friends that are News Anchors in various areas of the country that will do a piece on what we are developing. The news should spread rather fast.

There was a guy on “60 Minutes” the other night (I only caught the very end of it), and he was saying how “nervous” Hollywood Production Companies are becoming, regarding the Independent Film Makers. And they should be nervous, because we’re on our way!

We would like to form a contengency of Indie Film Makers, and stand at the ready to assist others that follow our lead. Everybody should know that funding a movie project is one of, if not the biggest obstacle they will encounter. By using the format we have decided to use, we feel pretty confident about the future of Independent Movie Making. Everybody we have mentioned this to has said this is an ingenius idea.

If there is one thing that is “reccession-proof”, it’s a good movie. People don’t want to spend $15 each to go to a theater right now, but will spend the same amount for a DVD, and take it home to show the entire family. Therefore saving themselves a lot of money.

Would you folks like to do a short piece on us, i.e., Tombstone Wild West Productions, and pick our brains about this endeavor, and the movies (3) we currently have on the board? By doing so, you might be helping countless people realize their dream. We will encourage them to fund their project exactly as we are, and be ready to assist people that follow in their footsteps.

David Menges
Tombstone Wild West Productions (Website on the way)
Tombstone, Arizona

702-280-4552

Comment by Jeffrey Goodman on 11/06/09 at 1:00 pm

Hi David,

Thank you so much for your post. I’m not really in a position to do a piece, per se, on you guys. But your post here and anything else you’d like to add here should be a fairly good tool for exposure. It sounds like a smart solution and interesting approach. Please keep me posted.

All the best,

Jeffrey

Comment by David Menges on 11/06/09 at 10:45 pm

Hi Jeffrey,

Thank you for your positive comments. Hopefully the Website will be complete soon, and we’ll see how it goes. I’m sure if we hit the right spots we’ll be fine.
We re-shot one of the shorter scenes the other night, and Bob (my partner) shot the “behind the scenes” stuff for his first documentary piece, so we have one segment ready to go. There won’t be much editing done… I told Bob I wanted the doc. to show everything. Shooting us having lunch and discussing the scenes is all good for a documentary. I believe that’s what the word means, right? Document what’s going on!
If it’s OK with you, when the site is ready to go, I’ll post the URL on the comments page here.

I’ll keep ya posted,

David Menges
Tombstone

Comment by Jeffrey Goodman on 11/07/09 at 7:34 am

Hi David,

That all sounds great. Yes, when the website’s ready, please feel free to post the URL here. I look forward to continuing to follow.

All the best,

Jeffrey

Comment by David Menges on 11/07/09 at 5:35 pm

Thanks again for your positivity… that always helps when you’re attempting something that some would say is totally unheard of. As you will see on the Website, I have been literally through hell trying to get this movie done.
I’ve had a couple of producers promise, yes PROMISE to come shoot the movie, and take their money on the back end. They were lying. So I postponed shooting until they were to show up (three times), but it always came down to them reneging, and “needing money to get started”. That’s understandable enough, but they said they didn’t need any money until we were finished when they came to Tombstone.
Things such as that were gnawing away at my cash flow, and then, out of nowhere, my wife was diagnosed with cancer. She told me not to give up, that we’d get through this. And we will.
The biggest “selling point” of this movie is that it is the first full-length movie to ever be filmed IN Tombstone. And it is my first writer, producer, director, movie. I’m using all local talent, of which there is plenty, and I have covered every ethnicity that was prevalent in Tombstone at the time. I have the Native-Americans, African-Americans, Mexicans, kids, the Women’s Movement, the handicapped, us old farts, and everything in between. And they’re all “good guys”.
The plot is good, and the acting is as good as I’ve seen lately, so we feel good about it’s success.

Here’s keeping our fingers crossed,

David

Comment by Jeffrey Goodman on 11/08/09 at 2:42 pm

Hi David,

Absolutely, I want to see you make this movie. Nothing like the feeling of overcoming all those obstacles and getting it done. I know that you will.

Keep us posted.

All the best,

Jeffrey

Comment by David Menges on 11/09/09 at 11:33 am

Thank you Jeffery for your continuing support. I just hope the news travels fast… it’s gonna start getting a bit nippy pretty soon… I’m from Florida, and I don’t do cold very well!