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utters word, he's referring to a place he's shown no small degree of disdain for: Hollywood. Ironically, the story of his success in Hollywood has reached legendary status for aspiring moviemakers. He chronicled his early rise and bootstrap moviemaking methodology in his 1995 book, Rebel Without A Crew. Now he's adding a new chapter to his career, and the title is made up of only two letters: HD.
Having a conversation with Rodriguez is not unlike having a conversation with a precocious child. But having a conversation with him about Hi Definition video is like having a conversation with a precocious child who just got his hands on a new toy. Like that youngster, Rodriguez expresses an infectious enthusiasm, and will rattle off interesting little tidbits about the history of his toy—what super powers it has and why it's better than all his other friends' toys. All an adult can do is sit back, smile and listen in awe.
Mel Rodriguez (MM): You work, quite literally, out of your home in Austin. Post-production, sound mix, score composing—everything?
Robert Rodriguez (RR): I do it all from home except, of
course,
the on-location shooting.
MM: You still do that even with these big projects, like the Spy Kids films and Once Upon a Time in Mexico?
RR: These projects especially. As things get bigger, the more personal you have to make them. That's why I have 12 credits on Spy Kids 2—I'm doing everything.
MM: What about the unions?
RR: I've got all the union cards! [laughs] Production design, cinematography… Some are the same, like editing, sound mixing... But I left the Writer's Guild.
MM: You left?
RR: They were trying to tell me what to do with my credits. I said ‘I don't need you guys. All you do is tell me what to do and take my money.' As soon as you find out you don't need these guys, it's all over for them.
MM: So what happens when you write a script outside the Guild, but then try to make it with people who are in the other unions?
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| Rodriguez and Antonio Banderas on the set of Spy Kids 3D: Game Over. |
RR: I get it made. You don't need them to get it made; they don't get you work. They just take your money, all those clubs. I was never into clubs and people that were really elitist—‘You're either with us or against us.' George Lucas isn't in any of those things and it doesn't seem to hurt him. I work with Miramax and they're very independent over there. Since I'll be the only writer on my stuff, there's no need to employ a union writer, so I don't need that union.
MM: And so you just leave?
RR: Oh, yeah. They freak out because they tell all the young filmmakers to join and then they're shocked when you leave because they believe their own bullshit that we “need them.” I'm all about freedom in art. Those guys want to control it. I'm from Texas, so when someone tells you which way to ride your horse, you think ‘I'll just go to a different ranch. You guys are riding it backwards anyway.'
MM: Did using Hi Definition video change your shooting style?
RR: Yes. That's another thing. See, once you give up on all those kinds of ideas about shooting style, you start rethinking everything. Film is horrible, so most definitely HD changes shooting style because it'snot horrible. Then you stop shooting film and you go ‘Well, why aren't they doing things this way?' You can get a much better perspective of the business by being outside of it. George Lucas told me the same thing. He said “Just because you live outside of Hollywood, you're going to come up with ideas and techniques they'll never think of in Hollywood.” You know when you go off and you make your mark in the world then you come back to your hometown and you find your old high school buddies still cruising the same two streets? That's what Hollywood's like. You're out there shooting HD and making all these advances and they're like “Huh? What? Nah, we like going in these circles.” And they never get anywhere. So I abandoned film; I abandoned all the traditional methods. I edit at home, I mix my soundtrack at home. I do all that stuff using the new technology that really frees you up and it's really inexpensive.
MM: You don't shoot on film, but they still transfer your final cut to a film print for distribution, right?
RR: Yeah, it's like me and George [Lucas] are the only ones in the industry right now using recordable DVDs and the rest of the industry is still vinyl records. Now, we're like, we make it on DVD and then we go ‘Okay, now let's make it on vinyl for everyone else who still listens to vinyl!' [laughs] That's what it's like and they don't see it that way because they're in town and they are all together sitting around looking at their vinyl going “No, no this is as good as it gets!”
MM: So you have no love for film?
RR: There's nothing to love about film. It's a terrible medium. It's just that we're used to it. It's kind of like if all you've ever had in your life is potato soup—what's wrong with that? There's nothing wrong with it because you've never had anything better. Now, when you finally try something better, you don't realize how much you hated that shit. But they won't even try it, Hollywood. They'll stick with that potato soup… You even pass them a steak, they look and they go “I don't think I'm going to like it. So I don't think I'm even going to taste it.”
MM: Are you more excited about moviemaking now than when you first started?
RR: Absolutely. When I got started I was eating potato soup, too. It was fun for the time, but now I've got steak! It changes everything, HD; it's revolutionary. You'll see, man. They're going to wonder how I'm making three movies a year and they all look better than their movies—and they're cheaper. So they're all going to start getting into it. But right now they've still got their blinders on. And it's only because creative people are notoriously the slowest to adopt new technology. That's just how it's always been. Creative people on one side, technical people on the other. Creative people aren't technical, technical people aren't creative and they always need each other. New technology comes up, creative people run away from it and it takes them so long to adopt it. But when they do, they never go back.
I was there 10 years ago when Avids were being introduced to editing. Editors were scared they were going to lose their jobs; they didn't want to have to learn a new system. It took them years. Then finally, they tried it, took 10 minutes to learn, now no one cuts on film. But now, you put a gun to an editor's head and he won't cut on film because he knows you make a better movie with an Avid. It's the same with HD. If you look at history, you'll see that's where it needs to go. But just like the editors, the cameramen are like “No, you shouldn't even test it.”
MM: What are your thoughts on DV?
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| Rodriguez (right) directs Johnny Depp on the set of Once Upon a Time in Mexico, the third in his El Mariachi series. |
RR: DV and Mini DV are like Super8. People get all confused; they see a DV movie and say “Well it didn't look that good.” You saw a Super8 movie! Super8 and 70mm are not the same!
MM: Yeah, but for the sake of all those out there who only have the means to make films on DV or Mini DV, how tough is it to get your film distributed if it's shot on these formats?
RR: It's tough. The movie just has to be good. I mean that's ultimately why we go to a movie. But these new systems that are coming out, if you can get a hold of an HD camera, what you've learned on DV translates directly to HD. It's nothing different. It looks just like that camera over there [motions to a Beta SP camera nearby]. It's better to go from DV to HD than it is to try to learn filmmaking, because film is dead. Don't even learn that whole crazy system.
I tell people making DV movies at home, use it for practice. Don't even try to get it distributed unless it's fucking fantastic. If not, just keep cranking them out. Get better; get better at storytelling. It allows you to do what I did when I started out, which is make a ton of movies for nothing. And you get so much better at it after a while, you can write them and direct them and you know the structure. You just need to learn how to do it and you learn by doing.
| “They’re all going to wonder how I’m making three movies a year and they all look better than their movies—and they’re cheaper.” |
MM: So then what's up next for you?
RR: I'm doing another Spy Kids right now, Spy Kids 3D. It comes out July 23rd. I did another Desperado, the third installment, called Once Upon a Time in Mexico and it comes out next year sometime.
MM: A Western shot on Hi Def video?
RR: All Hi Def. It's awesome. Johnny Depp doing action. Willem Dafoe plays a Mexican. Johnny's bad-ass. It's so cool to see. Danny Trejo, Mickey Rourke, Ruben Blades. Mickey's just being cool Mick in this movie. I gave him some really cool Mickey lines. I kept writing new stuff each day. Of course, Antonio Banderas and Salma Hayek are back. It's more like The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, so there are other characters as well. Antonio's character pays off really well in this one. Other than that, I'll sneak in some other movie in between there. See, it's beautiful. Crank out three or four movies a year, no problem. Then you get into distribution and cut out the middlemen. Reinvent the industry—in Texas, though. You can't do it from Hollywood, where everyone thinks the same. You gotta be outside.
MM: So what about the shortage of jobs for people who want to work in films outside Hollywood?
RR: I created my own jobs for people. There was no industry here. People weren't working regularly until I started making my movies here. And my movies aren't even set here! They're set in Costa Rica, South America... You look at it and you think it's some crazy island somewhere. It's Austin! Oh, I'm also going to do a new book. It's going to be online and it's going to be free. It's called “How to Do It.” Wherever you are, it's just how you shoot your film and how creative you allow yourself to be. Just stay out of Hollywood! MM