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Philip Seymour Hoffman and Amy Ryan Go Boating
Old friends and longtime collaborators explain the importance of a "good hang"
Philip Seymour Hoffman has earned enthusiastic acclaim for his acting work many times over. With Jack Goes Boating, he has announced himself as a formidable movie director, as well.
Hoffman’s feature directorial debut, based on the play by Bob Glaudini and scheduled for a September 17th release, centers on two New York couples, one in its ascendancy—Jack (Hoffman) and Connie (Amy Ryan)—and one in its decline—Clyde (John Ortiz) and Lucy (Daphne Rubin-Vega). The positivity of Jack and Connie’s relationship casts a stark light on the fractures in Clyde and Lucy’s, and before long all four characters are mired in the fallout of what Clyde and Lucy pessimistically call the realities of long-term relationships.
It’s the stuff that’s launched countless plays and films, but what separates Jack Goes Boating from the pack is Hoffman’s adroit and assured direction. In the Jack-Connie relationship, for example, Hoffman allows the camera to linger on what he describes as “the innate awkwardness of two people talking.” Like when real relationships are beginning, Jack and Connie have halting conversations while they tiptoe around the big questions. This approach could become ponderous, but under Hoffman’s direction it creates an honest, lived-in portrayal of love in bloom, propelling the film to a lean, filler-free, 90-minute runtime.
Here, old friends Hoffman and Ryan compare notes on the experience of working together on Jack Goes Boating, creating their on-screen relationship and the importance of working with actors who are a “good hang.”
Dante Ciampaglia (MM): You were both in Before the Devil Knows You’re Dead and Capote, but did you have a relationship outside of movies prior to making Jack Goes Boating? And did you draw on any of that for your performances?
Philip Seymour Hoffman (PSH): We met like 10 or 11 years ago. We were on this double-bill of one-act plays that were being done at the Barrow Street Theatre. We weren’t on the same one-act but we were on the same night, so I remember getting to know Amy back then. Then it was just acquaintances and through the business and stuff. But then we started working together again—on Capote and then Before the Devil Knows You’re Dead—and started hanging out more and talking more.
I don’t know if the relationship I have with Amy has anything to do with the relationship with the two characters in the film. What I do know is that whoever was going to play that part, I would need to trust right off that bat. I didn’t want to have to work at that. I didn’t want to have to put my time in and I felt that with Amy. So if anything, that definitely helped and was part of the reason why she’s in it.
Amy Ryan (AR): I feel like we have more of a working friendship and acquaintanceship. It’s not so much that we’re hanging out at restaurants all the time. Phil, you’re one of those people I’ve known for years and I feel I know well, but if I had to write down on paper the amount of social times we’ve been with each other outside of work, there’s very few. But the experiences we’ve had have been very true work; I feel, for me at least, it’s been very rich and intimate… And I think hopefully someday, if we do something else again, we’ll look back and think, ‘Wow, we thought we knew each other on Jack!’
PSH: Exactly. When you work together you’re put in a position of having to deal with each other and you can’t ignore each other. So you do get to know people in the work environment in short periods of time that in normal life might take longer, and that creates a unique relationship. Because you’re not in your own lives hanging out all the time but, like Amy said, you do have kind of intense little get-togethers when you’re working. I think the essence of that did help us trust each other when we were shooting.
AR: I think of this flash of a moment when we were in Winnipeg doing camera tests for Capote. I saw you down the hall and I had just arrived the night before, so it was the first I’d said hello to you, and you were in your costume and hair as Truman and I said ‘Hey Phil, how ya doin’?’ You go, “Good… Yeah, it’s a scary one.” And then you were called away. And I just thought, ‘Oh wow.’
Then, the next moment, I’m sitting in the scene with you and I thought, ‘I have the front row seat to this incredible performance…’ It’s those miniscule moments… You could have completely just shot the shit with me like, “Hey, how was your flight? When did you get in?” But it was just this full, open-hearted moment when you said, ‘I don’t know about this one.’ (laughs) It’s those flash moments that maintain that bond, at least for me.
PSH: Absolutely.
AR: It’s the same with Before the Devil Knows You’re Dead; you were rehearsing with Sidney [Lumet] for two weeks in that intimate setting and I’m so glad you took that technique to Jack Goes Boating, which was key.
PSH: In the work environment, you’re kind of exposed. So these people that you don’t hang out with a lot in your life but you do hang out with in the work environment, you do see them in a much more revealing, exposed way. So you can go a year or two without seeing each other and when you see each other again it’s as if you saw each other yesterday. It’s because you both know a little bit of something about each other that you wouldn’t normally.
AR: That’s something I’ve always been curious about, because you and John Ortiz are so close. In scenes when you’re directing him in Jack Goes Boating, how much of your personal relationship was ever used as a tool? And I don’t mean in any manipulative way, because I’m sure you could take short cuts with him in some way. Did you find that you had a different approach with John because you do know him so well?
PSH: Not very often, but every once in a while, I’ll go over and say something to him that has to do with something that only we would know. But what’s great about John in that circumstance, because I’ve directed John a handful of times… when I put on that directing cap, John understands the difference between when we’re working together as director/actor and when we’re not. When we’re working as director/actor, John lets me direct. He becomes the actor and I become the director and it’s a really amazing thing… and it is a rare thing. With John it’s probably because we’re so close and have known each other so long. But also I think it’s because our relationship, from the beginning—from our first meeting—has been forged through creating work. That’s what we do together. I don’t know if I have that relationship with anyone else that way. It’s very unique with him. So we just kind of let it happen; we try not to get in the way of it.
MM: Were there any surprises you learned about each other on this movie?
PSH: No, I didn’t learn anything new. I was so happy to be reminded that Amy is exactly who I thought she was, which is a thoughtful, talented, serious actress who also likes to have a good time—and that’s essential. (laughs) Those are the qualities. So I guess you get surprised by the thing you assume, but a lot of times you get disappointed and that’s life. You disappoint yourself all the time. I felt that more about myself while shooting, if anything. But with Amy? No.
AR: I’ve seen your work as a director before in terms of theater, and I wouldn’t say I was surprised. I was in good hands. I never doubted it. “What was Phil like as a director?” That to me would never be a thought… You’re creating a beautiful film from a beautiful script. Why wouldn’t anybody want to be there with bells on? I think with your passion for your work, it’s impossible not to be affected and encouraged by that. When I see your films and know nothing about the project that you’re working on, I just go as a moviegoer and pay my $10.
MM: There was very little artifice between the characters and their relationship in the movie. How did you work together to make each other’s relationship so real?
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This story was published in the Summer 2010 MovieMaker Magazine. The headline was:
The Innate Awkwardness of Two People Talking/Philip Seymour Hoffman and Amy Ryan talk Jack Goes Boating
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